The Great Debate That Made the U.S. Constitution. Madison James

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СКАЧАТЬ very pleasantly the progression in ecclesiastical benefices, from the first departure from the gratuitous provision for the Apostles, to the establishment of the papal system. The word "liberal" was struck out nem con.

      On the motion of Mr. Pierce, that the wages should be paid out of the National Treasury,

      Massachusetts ay. Connecticut no. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pennsylvania ay. Del. ay. Maryland ay. Virginia ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. G. ay.

      Question on the clause relating to term of service & compensation of 1st branch,

      Massachusetts ay. Connecticut no. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pennsylvania ay. Del. ay. Maryland ay. Virginia ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

      On a question for striking out the "ineligibility of members of the National Legis: to State offices,"

      Massachusetts divd. Connecticut ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. Pennsylvania no. Del. no. Maryland divd. Virginia no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

      On the question for agreeing to the clause as amended,

      Massachusetts ay. Connecticut no. N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. Pennsylvania ay. Del. ay. Maryland ay. Virginia ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

      On a question for making members of the National Legislature ineligible to any office under the National Government for the term of 3 years after ceasing to be members,

      Massachusetts no. Connecticut no. N. Y. no. N. J. no. Pennsylvania no. Del. no. Maryland ay. Virginia no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

      On the question for such ineligibility for one year,

      Massachusetts ay. Connecticut ay. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pennsylvania ay. Del. ay. Maryland divd. Virginia ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

      On question moved by Mr. Pinckney, for striking out "incapable of re-election into 1st branch of the National Legisl. for — — years, and subject to recall" agd. to nem. con.

      On question for striking out from the Resol: 5 the words requiring members of the Senatorial branch to be of the age of — — years at least

      Massachusetts no. Connecticut ay. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pennsylvania ay. Del. no. Maryland no. Virginia no. N. C. divd. S. C. no. Geo. divd.

      On the question for filling the blank with 30 years as the qualification; it was agreed to,

      Massachusetts ay. Connecticut no. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. Pennsylvania ay. Del. no. Maryland ay. Virginia ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

      Mr. Spaight moved to fill the blank for the duration of the appointments to the 2d branch of the National Legislature with the words "7 years."

      Mr. Sherman, thought 7 years too long. He grounded his opposition he said on the principle that if they did their duty well, they would be reelected. And if they acted amiss, an earlier opportunity should be allowed for getting rid of them. He preferred 5 years which would be between the terms of the 1st branch & of the executive.

      Mr. Pierce proposed 3 years. 7 years would raise an alarm. Great mischiefs had arisen in England from their septennial Act which was reprobated by most of their patriotic Statesmen.

      Mr. Randolph was for the term of 7 years. The democratic licentiousness of the State Legislatures proved the necessity of a firm Senate. The object of this 2d branch is to controul the democratic branch of the National Legislature. If it be not a firm body, the other branch being more numerous, and coming immediately from the people, will overwhelm it. The Senate of Maryland constituted on like principles had been scarcely able to stem the popular torrent. No mischief can be apprehended, as the concurrence of the other branch, and in some measure, of the Executive, will in all cases be necessary. A firmness & independence may be the more necessary also in this branch, as it ought to guard the Constitution against encroachments of the Executive who will be apt to form combinations with the demagogues of the popular branch.

      Mr. Madison, considered 7 years as a term by no means too long. What we wished was to give to the Government that stability which was every where called for, and which the Enemies of the Republican form alledged to be inconsistent with its nature. He was not afraid of giving too much stability by the term of Seven years. His fear was that the popular branch would still be too great an overmatch for it. It was to be much lamented that we had so little direct experience to guide us. The Constitution of Maryland was the only one that bore any analogy to this part of the plan. In no instance had the Senate of Maryland created just suspicions of danger from it. In some instances perhaps it may have erred by yielding to the H. of Delegates. In every instance of their opposition to the measures of the H. of D. they had had with them the suffrages of the most enlightened and impartial people of the other States as well as of their own. In the States where the Senates, were chosen in the same manner as the other branches, of the Legislature, and held their seats for 4 years, the institution was found to be no check whatever against the instabilities of the other branches. He conceived it to be of great importance that a stable & firm Government, organized in the republican form should be held out to the people. If this be not done, and the people be left to judge of this species of Government by the operations of the defective systems under which they now live, it is much to be feared the time is not distant when, in universal disgust, they will renounce the blessing which they have purchased at so dear a rate, and be ready for any change that may be proposed to them.

      On the question for "seven years" as the term for the 2d branch

      Massachusetts divided. (Mr. King, Mr. Ghorum ay, Mr. Gerry, Mr. Strong, no) Connecticut no. N. Y. divd N. J. ay. Pennsylvania ay. Del. ay. Maryland ay. Virginia ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

Mr. Butler and Mr. Rutlidge proposed that the members of the 2d branch should be entitled to no salary or compensation for their services. On the question,3 —

      Massachusetts divd. Connecticut ay. N. Y. no. N. J. no. P. no. Del. ay. Maryland no. Virginia no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

      It was then moved & agreed that the clauses respecting the stipends & ineligibility of the 2d branch be the same as, of the 1st branch: — Con: disagreeing to the ineligibility.

      It was moved & seconded to alter the Resol: 9. so as to read "that the jurisdiction of the supreme tribunal shall be to hear & determine in the dernier resort, all piracies, felonies, &c."

      It was moved & seconded to strike out "all piracies & felonies on the high seas," which was agreed to.

      It was moved & agreed to strike out "all captures from an enemy."

      It was moved & agreed to strike out "other States" and insert "two distinct States of the Union."

      It was moved & agreed to postpone the consideration of the Resolution 9, relating to the Judiciary:

      The Committee then rose & the House Adjourned.

1 Pennsylvania omitted in the printed Journal. The vote is there entered as of June 11th. — Madison's Note.

2 "Mr. Jenifer is a Gentleman of fortune in Maryland; — he is always in good humour, and never fails to make his company pleased with him. He sits silent in the Senate, and seems to be conscious that he is no politician. From his long continuance in single life, no doubt but he has made СКАЧАТЬ