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СКАЧАТЬ with justice if the Trial were to be carried out in absence of Krupp senior. When, in representing the opposite point of view, it is pointed out that the public opinion of the entire world demands the trial against the defendant, Mr. Krupp, then the main reason offered is that Krupp senior is to be regarded as one of the principal war criminals. I have already pointed out that this reasoning would be an anticipation of the final judgment of the Court. It is my opinion, that this is not the place and the time to discuss these questions and I wish to limit myself to what I already said before: Namely, that all that has been said in this direction is for the moment only a thesis of the Prosecution, which, in the course of the Trial, will be confronted with an antithesis of the Defense, so that then the High Court can arrive at a synthesis of this thesis and antithesis and make a fair judgment.

      One more point regarding this question:

      It has also been pointed out that Krupp senior, could be tried in absentia for the reason that the entire evidence regarding the question of guilt has already been presented and was no secret. In view of the facts this is not correct.

      So far we have seen only a part of the evidence, that is, that which is contained in the bundle of documents. But may I point out that from the firm of Krupp and the private quarters of the Krupp family, the entire written material which consisted of whole truck-loads was confiscated, and we did not see any of this material. Thus, the defense is difficult to undertake, since, due to the confiscation of this entire material, only the Defendant Krupp senior would be in a position to describe at least to a certain extent the documents necessary for his defense, so that they could be submitted in the regular form of application for evidence to this High Court.

      As far as the question of an additional indictment against the son, Alfried Krupp, is concerned I wish to state first of all that I have not officially been charged with the defense of this defendant. I suppose, however, that I will be charged with the defense and that is why, with the permission of the Court, I wish to say a few words here about this motion, perhaps as a representative without commission. I do not know whether it is possible, that is, legally possible, subsequently to put Mr. Alfried Krupp on the list of the principal war criminals. However, even if I were to let this legal possibility open to discussion, I should like to call attention to the following:

      In view of the changed situation, it seems to me to be a bit strange, to say the least, if Alfried Krupp were to be put on the list as a principal war criminal now, not because he was marked as one from the beginning, but because his father cannot be tried. I see in that a certain game played by the representative of the United States which cannot be sanctioned by the Court in my opinion.

      In addition, I wish to make the following brief remark:

      In case a supplementary indictment should be made against Alfried Krupp, and if I were definitely charged with his defense, my conscience would oblige me to request that the period of 30 days between the serving of the Indictment and the main Trial as provided in Rule 2 (a), would have to be kept under all circumstances.

      Finally, I should like to point out the following:

      In conclusion, I should like to emphasize that, so far as I am informed, the circumstances and facts regarding the person of Alfried Krupp are basically different from the circumstances concerning the person of the present defendant, Krupp senior. In the documents that have been put at our disposal so far, and which are bound in one volume, I have hardly found a single word about any complicity or participation of Alfried Krupp in the crimes with which Krupp senior is charged. I should also like to emphasize that, as has already been discussed, Alfried Krupp became the owner of the Krupp firm, I believe, only in November 1943 and that previously, from 1937 to 1943, he was merely director of one department of the entire concern, but in this capacity he did not have the slightest influence on the management of the firm, nor did he have anything to do with orders for the production and delivery of war materials.

      For the reasons stated, I believe I am justified in expressing the wish to refrain from introducing Alfried Krupp into this Trial of the principal war criminals.

      THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn now and announce its decision on this application later.

      [The Tribunal adjourned until 15 November 1945 at 1000 hours.]

PRELIMINARY HEARING

       Thursday, 15 November 1945

       Table of Contents

      THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has invited the Defense Counsel to be present here today as it desires that they shall thoroughly understand the course which the Tribunal proposes the proceedings at trial should take.

      The Tribunal is aware that the procedure provided for by the Charter is in some respects different from the procedure to which Defense Counsel are accustomed. They therefore desire that Defense Counsel should be under no misapprehension as to course which must be followed.

      Article 24 of the Charter provides for the reading of the Indictment in Court, but in view of its length, and the fact that its contents are now probably well known, it may be that Defense Counsel will not think it necessary that it should be read in full.

      The opening of cases for the Prosecution will necessarily take a long time, and during that time Defense Counsel will have an opportunity to complete their preparations for defense.

      When witnesses for the Prosecution are called, it must be understood that it is the function of Counsel for the Defense to cross-examine the witnesses, and that it is not the intention of the Tribunal to cross-examine the witnesses themselves.

      The Tribunal will not call upon the Defense Counsel to state what evidence they wish to submit until the case for the Prosecution has been closed.

      As Defense Counsel already know, the General Secretary of the Tribunal makes every effort to obtain such evidence, both witnesses and documents, as the Defense wish to adduce and the Tribunal approves.

      The General Secretary is providing, and will provide, lodging, food, and transportation for Defense Counsel and witnesses while in Nuremberg. And though the living conditions provided may not be all that can be desired, Defense Counsel will understand that there are great difficulties in the present circumstances and efforts will be made to meet any reasonable request.

      Defense Counsel have been provided with a Document Room and an Information Center where documents translated into German are available for the Defense, subject to the necessary security regulations. It is important that Defense Counsel should notify the General Secretary as long as possible, and at least 3 weeks in ordinary cases, in advance, of witnesses or documents they require.

      The services which Defense Counsel are performing are important public services for the interests of justice, and they will have the protection of the Tribunal in the performance of their duties.

      In order that the Trial should proceed with due expedition, it would seem desirable that Defense Counsel should settle among themselves the order in which they wish to cross-examine the Prosecution witnesses and propose to present their defenses, and that they should communicate their wishes in this regard to the General Secretary.

      I hope that what I have said will be of assistance to Defense Counsel in the preparation of their defenses. If there are any questions in connection with what I have said which they wish to ask, I will endeavor to answer them.

      DR. ALFRED THOMA (Counsel for Defendant Rosenberg): Mr. President.

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