The Nuremberg Trials (Vol.9). International Military Tribunal

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СКАЧАТЬ STAHMER: And what became of these camps?

      KÖRNER: When the Reich Marshal heard about them he had them instantly disbanded because they were established without his permission.

      DR. STAHMER: What was the Reich Marshal’s attitude when he heard of complaints?

      KÖRNER: He always followed them up immediately.

      DR. STAHMER: Do you know of any case where he took specially strong measures?

      KÖRNER: Yes, I can remember the case of Thälmann.

      DR. STAHMER: What happened in that case?

      KÖRNER: It had come to the Reich Marshal’s knowledge that Thälmann had not been treated in the way the Reich Marshal wished. He immediately followed the matter up and had Thälmann brought to him.

      DR. STAHMER: Who was Thälmann?

      KÖRNER: Thälmann was one of the leaders of the Communist Party and a communist member of the Reichstag.

      DR. STAHMER: And how did the Reich Marshal speak to Thälmann?

      KÖRNER: He had him brought into his office and asked him to tell him exactly why he had made a complaint.

      DR. STAHMER: And then?

      KÖRNER: Thälmann was very reticent at first, because he feared a trap. When the Reich Marshal spoke to him in a humane manner, he realized that he could speak freely. He told the Reich Marshal that on several occasions he had not been treated properly. The Reich Marshal promised him immediate redress and gave the necessary instructions. He also asked Thälmann to notify him immediately if it happened again. In addition he ordered that any complaints made by Thälmann should be passed on to him.

      DR. STAHMER: Do you know how long the Reich Marshal was in charge of the Gestapo in the concentration camps?

      KÖRNER: Until the spring of 1934; I believe it was March or April.

      DR. STAHMER: Under whom did they come then?

      KÖRNER: By order of the Führer, they came under the competence of Reichsführer Himmler.

      DR. STAHMER: What do you know about the events in connection with the Röhm revolt on 30 June 1934?

      KÖRNER: That a Röhm revolt was planned I heard when I was with the Reich Marshal in Essen, where we were attending the wedding of Gauleiter Terboven. During the wedding festivities Himmler arrived and made a report to the Führer. Later the Führer drew the Reich Marshal aside and told him in confidence of Röhm’s designs.

      DR. STAHMER: Do you also know what he told him?

      KÖRNER: I can only say that what Himmler told the Führer was also brought to Göring’s knowledge.

      DR. STAHMER: Do you not know any further details?

      KÖRNER: No, I do not know any further details, but I think that is sufficient.

      DR. STAHMER: What instructions did Göring receive?

      KÖRNER: The Führer instructed Göring to return to Berlin immediately after the wedding festivities, and the Führer went to southern Germany to investigate the reports personally.

      DR. STAHMER: When was this wedding?

      KÖRNER: As far as I remember, it was 2 days before the Röhm Putsch.

      DR. STAHMER: Do you know whether, on the day after the Röhm Putsch, the Reich Marshal was with Hitler?

      KÖRNER: No. The Reich Marshal was in Berlin. We returned to Berlin the same evening.

      DR. STAHMER: And on the day after the Röhm Putsch on 30 June, that is on 1 July?

      KÖRNER: The Reich Marshal was in Berlin.

      DR. STAHMER: Do you know whether there was a conversation between him and Hitler?

      KÖRNER: Yes. I remember that the Reich Marshal drove to the Reich Chancellery to report several things to the Führer. In particular the Reich Marshal had heard that on this occasion innocent people also might have or rather had fallen victim. Therefore, he wanted to ask the Führer to stop the whole action immediately.

      DR. STAHMER: Was that done?

      KÖRNER: Yes, that was done.

      DR. STAHMER: In what way?

      KÖRNER: After the report of the Reich Marshal, the Führer himself issued an order that no further unauthorized action should take place, that the action was over, and if any guilty people were still found they should be brought before the ordinary courts which would decide whether or not proceedings should be brought against these people.

      DR. STAHMER: Do you know whether the Reich Marshal had anything to do with the action against the Jews during the night of 9 November 1938?

      KÖRNER: No, the Reich Marshal had definitely nothing to do with it and had no inkling of it.

      DR. STAHMER: How do you know?

      KÖRNER: Because I was with the Reich Marshal on 9 November in Munich—he was always there on that day. The same evening we went to Berlin. Had the Reich Marshal known anything about it, he would certainly have told me or those who were with him. He had no inkling.

      DR. STAHMER: When did he find out about it?

      KÖRNER: Shortly before he arrived in Berlin, or at the Anhalter Station in Berlin.

      DR. STAHMER: Through whom?

      KÖRNER: Through his adjutant.

      DR. STAHMER: And how did he take the news?

      KÖRNER: He was furious when he received the report, because he was strongly opposed to the whole action.

      DR. STAHMER: And what did he do about it?

      KÖRNER: He got in touch with the Führer immediately to ask for the action to be stopped at once.

      DR. STAHMER: What were your tasks within the framework of the Four Year Plan?

      KÖRNER: I was Chief of the Office of the Four Year Plan.

      DR. STAHMER: What were your tasks?

      KÖRNER: The management and supervision of that office.

      DR. STAHMER: How did the Four Year Plan come about? When and how did it start?

      KÖRNER: The official Four Year Plan was announced in October 1936, but its origin goes back to the food crisis of 1935. In the autumn of 1935 the Reich Marshal received the order from the Führer . . .

      THE PRESIDENT: Witness, try not to go quite so fast. It is very difficult to get the translation.

      KÖRNER: Yes, Sir.

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